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Old May 13, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryFox
I would say that I'm experienced enough to give my opinion on skills related to PvE and PvP separation.
No offense, but your post history says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Todays players are just bad. If you need PvE skills to win, you suck.
True. Unless PvE skills are nerfed, this change will only breed more bad players.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21   #122
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Which is why I mentioned 'experienced players'.
The word experienced itself is relative and very subjective and too broad for an exact definition. Given that everyone has different playing styles, the learning commences at different rates, and insights gained differ from one player to another.

As such, you asking players to learn to play the game can be constituted to insulting them.

Case in point. How would you like it if the teacher reprimands you and chids you for being incompetent at something ? " Learn to study ! " Insulting isn't it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Asking experienced players is a better source of information than anywhere else - especially since they're seemingly taking suggestions from inexperienced members.

Considering most of the ANet crew aren't experienced players by any definition, the best thing they could do is get suggestions from players that have a clue, from a range of backgrounds, and take them into account.
I don't deny that, but a better way would be to create a global ingame poll stating whether they like the new changes if they do take place and to what extent. Up to now, this is a feature which is sorely lacking in a majority, if not all mmos.

Come on, every player has their own account, they can institue, a one vote per account poll after every update, and tally the responses. That is the best way to account for whether the changes are truly effective and wanted.

Otherwise, just plain listening to changes if self woud NOT do. Because once again, one drop of water is not equal to the entire ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with atrocious changes being thrown at the game to squeeze money out while hastening it's decent to irrelevance?
From what i can see, it is just good business sense. A product at the final chapters of its active life cycle is a ripe experimental grounds for testing possible mechanics implementable in GW 2 for the following reasons.

1. The money is already in their pockets.

2. See how far they can afford to stretch far flung ideas which can possibly bring in more profit through gameplay.

3. No lashback on GW 2 itself, which is effectively independent, gameplay wise.

But like you said, Anet could be concerned for GW sentiment too much. And honestly I don't blame them. They have a huge disposable playground, which behaves similarly to an actual human society, at their fingertips. Alot can be learned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the biggest area for ANet to get money out of Guild Wars for an extended period of time is to put it on the competitive stage. They've decided to go for milking the lowest common denominator instead, and now have to keep throwing their game down that direction to keep it profitable.
Note- By definition of competitive, I am assuming you are referring to the PvP segment.

If you are referring to the PvE segment for competitve stage, please explain me how is that so ?

Are you referring to the global mmo market? That is a bad business decision. They already sold so many copies of GWs world wide. They did have to create even more content, of which they already explicited said no more.

The reason being that, with every new expansion, comes the further chain of the original mechanics, which can create new complications, which leads to more and more imbalance.

2 points.

1. This game is already free to play, and solely PvP accounts are available for a much one time smaller price compared to a PvE account.

Also, the only they can get even more money for PvP is unless they introduce new gimmickry for players in PvP to entice players, in which case, do you think existing PvP players won't complain if this occur ?

2. And remember, PvP and PvE is now separate, so how does changes to PvE affects PvP them, you could argue for the PvX players, of which I will gladly refer you to this thread, for the PvP Skill rules in PvE mode settings toggle.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287497
Go actively promote it for your cause then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Guild Wars was stable enough after the first year to keep moving. The only reason the game is gaining more stability now is for the same reason a dead person is stable. There's literally nothing happening in the game to put what's left of it at risk.
What done is done, you can't reverse the flow of time. I wasn't here the 1st 3years but I am still not inclined to hear the sob story. In fact, in a warped sort of way, I would say to you, get with the times, change is everywhere.

Since you say that there is literally nothing happening that puts what's left of it at risk, why not let them implement the drastic changes then ?

After all, any changes now, no matter how drastic, can't possibly faze you now, can it ? What do you care then ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Long story short, ANet wouldn't need laughable ideas if they hadn't started implementing PvE-centric changes in the first place.
That is your end game perspective, that is only how you see things. I won't dispute how you see things. But I must remind you once again, one drop of water will never represent the ocean.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23   #123
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Tactics, tactics and tactics line fix please.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28   #124
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
You have a good point Avarre, I have 4445 hours 18 minutes on my Primary PvE account across 10 characters one of each class. I also have 1515 hours and 32 minutes on my Secondary PvP account across my PvP character of the month. I would say that I'm experienced enough to give my opinion on skills related to PvE and PvP separation. What In your opinion would be experienced enough to give an experienced opinion? OR does someone just have to agree with you for their opinion to count?
Now I laugh my balls off. Another wanna be god of all.

Do you dare to say you can represent 500 000 players who have only 10 hours each, which adds up to only a base of 5 000 000 hours ? This is already the extreme end already of looking at perspective, which isn't true, given the fact that many players have far more hours.

Do yourself a favour, the minute you become a true god, with eyes over the entire GW world, looking down at the actions of the players, will I be even mildly interested in what you say. Otherwise, its just percieved arrogance.

After all, one drop of water is NOT an ocean. Let Anet themselves handle the changes, since you all say its a dead fish.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32   #125
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Todays players are just bad. If you need PvE skills to win, you suck.
True indeed, so should Anet cater to the minority group take doesn't suck for revenue or the majority group of players who does suck ?

Think carefully before you make a statement.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35   #126
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No offense, but your post history says otherwise.
I'm sorry how are the number of posts I've contributed to relevant again? The sheer fact that I have 149 busniess weeks worth of in game play for input should suffice. There are many here with far more posts than what I have with far less play. I would say their opinions are valuable as well, for reasons different than my own.

/sigh

Lets not turn this into a Troll war please.


Also I would say my opinion is my own. I don't, nor have I said I represent thousands of other player. I will say what I have observed over the past 3 years of playing. I will also say that I just as Avarre, am an experienced player. Just with different points of view.
Last edited by GloryFox; May 13, 2008 at 03:38 PM // 15:38..
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36   #127
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I am just gona quote myself on this one, to solve all this pointless griefing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mewcatus
For those who wish to continue to play with PvP based Skill rules system in PvE. ( AKA pre-patch ).

Go to this thread and make an active vote for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287497
An idea to have an additional toggle for which skill system to use.

Now, that solves alot of problems, doesn't it ?
1. Those who desire the reversion, gets it.

2. Those who wishes for a minimal difference bond between PvP and PvE, gets it.

The only ones left who would be unstatisfied are those with a desire to dictate that how others should play. ( AKA the Dominators ).
Long story short, actively campaign for the toggle, and all sides win.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36   #128
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Minority of course. Majority of people that play GW only play because it's free, so they'll continue to play even if they lose their godly builds.

GloryFox - Ash was talking about the content of your posts, not the amounts of posts.
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Old May 13, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51   #129
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Minority of course. Majority of people that play GW only play because it's free, so they'll continue to play even if they lose their godly builds.
Assumption made: Players today are just bad.

Brillant assessment. Make the game better for the minority. So it is indeed true that mmos nowadays gain by catering to a small group.

What would think would be Anet's take on this then ?

Let me propose for you a case study.

When an update is made, it only pleases one side but angers the other.

Do you Anet would prefer to handle complaints from a bigger or a smaller group ?

Think carefully once again.
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00   #130
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posted by Malice Black
Majority of people that playGW only play because it's free, so they'll continue to play even if they lose their godly builds.
I can only hope that is true on a broader sense. I know quite a few that have left since the Ritual Lord nerf, and more that left with the Paragon AR nerf. Heck even I almost did on that nerf alone. There are other games, not all MMO's, that cater to people who play for the enjoyment of feeling powerful and important, its an aspect lost to the experience of playing in a surreal reality world. It goes back to why people play games. Some play for competition some play to get away from competition. I don't see why GW can't cater to both. The experience for PvE (the feeling of being powerful, needed, and unstoppable) and the competition for PvP (by the rush of victory over a foe of equal worth).

Both game types have their place, need and market value. I think the move ANet is taking is both long overdue and will re energize both area's of the game. Perhaps even bring back old players who got annoyed by the over nerfing of skills that ruined their style of game play.
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01   #131
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Any Skill which Laughably Piggybacked me to finish me to finishing Vanquishing while reading Memoirs of a Geisha , and start the Ancestors Tale....

Either WTB Nightmare Mode or Tweak down PvE Power. I'd Like a Challenge in PvE. Well people mention 30+ Minions etc or Make my Farming Build more powerful it makes me wonder.....Why? In the former, surely you want some sort of challenge in PvE rather than taking the same build in PvE everywhere and rinse repeating. And surely farming *nerfs* like Mystic Regeneration are a good thing for the *Elite* - If you can still do it while 90% can't , more profit for you.
I've finished all my PvE statues and HoM (apart from those Asian Mini's *le sigh*) so I've almost exclusively been doing PvP for a bit, but I still wouldn't want to see my more favore part of the game turn into a Rampage Playpark
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07   #132
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Originally Posted by TempusReborn
Any Skill which Laughably Piggybacked me to finish me to finishing Vanquishing while reading Memoirs of a Geisha , and start the Ancestors Tale....

Either WTB Nightmare Mode or Tweak down PvE Power. I'd Like a Challenge in PvE. Well people mention 30+ Minions etc or Make my Farming Build more powerful it makes me wonder.....Why? In the former, surely you want some sort of challenge in PvE rather than taking the same build in PvE everywhere and rinse repeating. And surely farming *nerfs* like Mystic Regeneration are a good thing for the *Elite* - If you can still do it while 90% can't , more profit for you.
I've finished all my PvE statues and HoM (apart from those Asian Mini's *le sigh*) so I've almost exclusively been doing PvP for a bit, but I still wouldn't want to see my more favore part of the game turn into a Rampage Playpark
For those who wish to continue to play with PvP based Skill rules system in PvE. ( AKA pre-patch ).

Go to this thread and make an active vote for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287497
An idea to have an additional toggle for which skill system to use.

Now, that solves alot of problems, doesn't it ?
1. Those who desire the reversion, gets it.

2. Those who wishes for a minimal difference bond between PvP and PvE, gets it.

The only ones left who would be unstatisfied are those with a desire to dictate that how others should play. ( AKA the Dominators ).


Long story short, actively campaign for the toggle, and all sides win.
Last edited by Mewcatus; May 13, 2008 at 05:39 PM // 17:39..
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08   #133
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revert veratas,no limit to minions and oob

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Old May 13, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11   #134
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Lift the minion cap for PLAYER CHARACTERS ONLY.
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryFox
I'm sorry how are the number of posts I've contributed to relevant again? The sheer fact that I have 149 busniess weeks worth of in game play for input should suffice. There are many here with far more posts than what I have with far less play. I would say their opinions are valuable as well, for reasons different than my own.

/sigh

Lets not turn this into a Troll war please.


Also I would say my opinion is my own. I don't, nor have I said I represent thousands of other player. I will say what I have observed over the past 3 years of playing. I will also say that I just as Avarre, am an experienced player. Just with different points of view.
It's not the post count. It's the posts. I spotted a post which made me lol irl.
"Paragons are crap", yet they still have: An extremely imba IAS, stupid energy management, stupid weapon mastery, unremovable buffs, and for PvE, Imbagon.

I'm not even going to comment on the other posts.

And the AR nerf was barely a nerf.

If they kill Paragons in the PvP balance, I'll be happy. Those broken things should die.
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19   #136
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I would like to see Ursan buffed by giving warriors and other professions more energy, and give casters more armor while using Ursan. Also yes on the no minion cap.
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20   #137
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totally gobsmacked at how a "PVE SKILL" revision thread can turn into thread necros QQing rivers over soul reaping
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mewcatus
For those who wish to continue to play with PvP based Skill rules system in PvE. ( AKA pre-patch ).

Go to this thread and make an active vote for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287497
An idea to have an additional toggle for which skill system to use.

Now, that solves alot of problems, doesn't it ?
1. Those who desire the reversion, gets it.

2. Those who wishes for a minimal difference bond between PvP and PvE, gets it.

The only ones left who would be unstatisfied are those with a desire to dictate that how others should play. ( AKA the Dominators ).
1. That link doesn't work.

2. People who think Ursan and PvE skills are bad for the game and don't use them are already at a disadvantage, because using them makes everything easier and faster, maximising profit. Now you're suggesting that people who want skills in PvE to remain linked to PvP, or at least not be buffed/reverted - often the same people who hate Ursan/PvE skills - should be further marginalised by being forced to either sacrifice profit for a better game, or play a ridiculously easy and boring game with overpowered skills. This would cause many players to stop playing PvE or quit the game entirely, because all resemblance of a game that once rewarded player skill in both PvE and PvP would be lost. In short: terrible idea.
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39   #139
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I wanne see some more smiting love, especially the signets and dmg output.

Strictly on the topic of reversion: the original protective bond would be cool again together with an 1/4 casting time of shield of absorption while they're at it.
Last edited by Gun Pierson; May 13, 2008 at 05:43 PM // 17:43..
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43   #140
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This is a big flame fest and needs to be locked >_>
In my opinion, I would say that tactics and motivation needs a buff.
Does anyone even use motivation anymore?For the effects in which the anthems do, they have an awful long recharge time.
Song of restoration,for example, should have a recharge time at least under 10.

And don't get my started on tactics...
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